How then did you become a registrar and eventually a Chief Judge?After a while, Nweje was appointed the judge and then, I was still the
deputy registrar. After his appointment as the judge, I did not reactand then, it became obvious that I would be the next Chief Registrar.I was appointed Chief Registrar during Jim Nwobodo’s tenure as theGovernor of old Anambra State. There was reasonable degree of honestythose days. Youwill be surprised that the chief registrar has more powers than theChief Judge because the registrar is a political appointee and theadministrative head of the judiciary. So, after I noticed that JimNwobodo was winning at the Supreme Court, immediately I packed out ofmy official house in Enugu and returned unaccompanied to my home inNimo because I knew that should Nwobodo win, I would be the target. So, Ididn’t want to take chances. I left my resignation letter with thesecretary so that should Nwobodo be declared winner, she would submit the letter stating that I had voluntarily retired. Even at Nimo, my country home, I felt sonervous about the outcome of the election that I ran to Onitsha tostay. Later, news arose that C.C. Onoh won the election and I withdrewmy letter of retirement.
Did Justice Uyanna become a judge before you?
Yes. Justice Uyanna and Justice Igu were appointed the same day.
Did they not pass through the Chief Registrar position?
No, they did not. Uyanna was a Chief Magistrate at Enugu while Iguwas a private legal practitioner at Onitsha. Though we had oath ofsecrecy, I will tell you that a letter from the National JudicialCouncil to the Chief judge, Justice Aniagolu of Anambra State, producedlist of ten people for the Chief Judge to select two people asrecommendation for appointment. And the Chief Judge, having it as ahabit to seek my opinion, told me to look at the write up. After Istudied the letter, the names there were all qualified and practicallythey were all my friends. When I looked at it, I didn’t know what towrite but the interesting part of it was that Justice Igu and Uyannawere the first and second names in the list and Uyanna was from ourarea. So, if I jump them there would be question mark about myconscience. To clear my conscience, I went back to the Chief judge. Itold him that all the names are qualified and that we can choose anytwo out of the ten names. He replied, in that case, let the firsttwo names go. So, the two of them were appointed at the same time andironically, Igu became the first Chief Judge at the creationof Enugu State. He had a short stint as Chief Judge before he headedto the Supreme Court because I don’t think there was anything likeAppeal Court that time. When he left, Uyanna became the ChiefJudge. Uyanna retired as the Chief Judge barely after one year ofresumption while Igu continued at the Supreme Court. All these thingshappened because the system was good. Now, the system has changed.People who want to be judge now campaign for it and even give bribes.The system has collapsed and there is no question about that.
Was it after Nwazota that you were appointed Chief Judge?
Yes. After Nwazota, I was appointed Chief Judge.
From the post of a Chief Registrar?
No, it was from the post of a judge. Nwazota was a judge but becamechief judge after Uyanna left and his tenure lasted for a long timeand I was a judge while he (Nwazota) was serving as Chief judge.
Talking about Nigeria’s constitution, a school of thought holds that Nigeria hasnot been ruled by any legal constitution. How true is this assertion and what do
you think the government should do in this regard?
Nothing, but let me tell you my own view. In the first place, we haveno constitution. The 1999 constitution we are using is a fraud. AfterAbacha died and Abdulsalami Abubakar took over, he gathered a group ofpersons who wrote the new constitution called the 1999 Constitution. I’m sorry tosay that the constitution was founded on lies and dishonesty becausethat constitution said in the preamble: “We, the people of Nigeria,having agreed, ..” this and that. How can you say such a lie openly andmany of our people accepted it as truth. The constitution lied againstitself. Is it true that we the people of Nigeria unanimously agreed onthis constitution? We have the members of the National Assembly,lawyers and others quoting 1999 Constitution here and there. We aredealing with very dishonest people and they are the people misleadingNigeria today. If the lawmakers at federal and state legislative houses are telling the truth, Nigeria would be a better place. Any country thatis founded on lies and dishonesty cannot progress, instead they wouldbe wobbling and that is what is happening in Nigeria. We are afraid totell the truth and once we cannot tell ourselves the truth, it can beexploited and that is what the Fulani are exploiting because we arethe ones wobbling. So, nothing in Nigeria today is right because thefoundation is not there. One can only lay a strong foundation and thenbuild on it. Yes, we can make mistake which is natural but thissituation is a deliberate falsehood. If you pick up Nigeria’sconstitution, you find out that it tells a lie about itself. They said
the constitution is ‘unanimously agreed,’ it is not true.
We have the 1963 and 1979 constitutions, do we go back to those ones?
If I’m to decide, I would go back to the 1960 Constitution that gave usindependence. It is only the 1960 constitution that can correct thisrubbish being practised in the country today.
What about the 1963 Republican Constitution?
It is still better than what we have now. There is no constitutionthat would not be better than the 1999 constitution founded on lies,brazenly told and even written down. And how was this constitutionmade? After Abacha died, Abubakar became the Head of State. He wasthere for about nine months before he handed over and that was how heput these things together. Who and who would he say made theconstitution when it did not seek the opinion of the people. Anyconstitution that did not seek the opinion of the people is not worthyto be called a constitution.
So, what’s the way forward for Nigerians, constitution wise?
My dear, I have problem in answering that question because I trustnobody now. I don’t trust anybody be it in the civil service or elsewhere becauseof corruption. Money is now guiding our actions and no one has theintegrity to say what needs to be said. If you look at the likes ofMichael Okpala, Mbazuluike Amaechi, etc., they all fought the white menwithout waiting for compensation. That is how people work. They purelyworked for the people and not for their pockets. I don’t know of anypolitician now who is working for the people, rather than for his pockets.So, how can you use people like that to talk about constitution? I’msorry, the politicians today are just looking for money. They are nottrustworthy. That is not how to make money, making money requireshard work, not stealing.
Against this background, some people are saying that restructuring,devolution of power or secession is the way forward for Nigeria, whichway do you think Nigeria should go?There is nothing to restructure because there is nothing there. There
is nothing in the constitution that is not oriented towardsbenefitting either A or B. It is not a constitution. The nearest thingto constitution is the 1960 independence constitution and if it iswhat we are going to amend, it will be understandable and simple. What ispolice? Police is an institution that maintains law and order in thecommunity. Okay, we borrowed the constitution of America, then, whydid we chose what to put and what not to put. American system haslasted for a long time and has been amended only three times while ourown here has undergone countless amendments. In the constitution, wehad the Senate and House of Representatives then as well as the State Assembly.Why don’t we take it as a whole. It is a packaged deal and notpicking parts. It is because we picked only the ones we liked, that is whythe system is collapsing. Take, for instance, in the American Constitution,they have the state police which is not even a matter to debate. It isa part of their constitution. Then, they have town police; they alsohave local government police and then generally, the federal guard.The reason police stations are burnt is because the structure isnot straight. If we are serious about any amendment, the startingpoint should be the Police. We are deceiving ourselves. Politiciansare naive and they are acting on what they are told. We are talkingabout constitution amendment but we have not asked ourselves thepossibility of amending what does not exist. It is this situation ofgoing round and round that has pushed some persons into agitation forself determination.
In the light of these, which way do you think the country should go?Should the agitators be given opportunity for plebiscite orbe suppressed?
Well, to be honest with you, the agitation by these people is naturalreaction any human being can make. If you force me to be part of youand I am not happy with how you are doing your things, allow me to beon my own. That is the situation of Nigeria. Agitation is a right inprinciple and the method of achieving it is a different matter. If wefollow 1960 Constitution which gave us independence, that is theconstitution we should amend now. I’m not even sure we have sufficientreason to have presidential system of government instead of theparliamentary system we were trained with. This country was born intoit and that is still what Britain is using. When we are talking aboutconstitution writing, Nigeria as a country is blessed with intelligentpeople especially among the Igbo race. What Nigeria is trying to donow is to ensure that those brilliant people are not seen or take partin the scheme of things.
Ahead of the 2023 election, if given the choice of presidency andan independent state of Biafra, which one do you advise the Igbo togo for?
I will take presidency because that is where the power is in Nigeria.There will not be independent state of Biafra without it beingannounced. But if our five governors are smart, they will have Biafrawithout announcing it. All they need to do is cooperate and worktogether.
There are calls that the President wields enormous power which makes himdictatorial and to use the military at will, how do you think this perceivedanomaly can be corrected?We have to be honest with ourselves. We have people talking about the
constitution and we need to ask ourselves what we really want in theconstitution. Is it the British system or the American system. We nowhave the presidential system which is neither British nor American.Doesn’t that show we are wrong? What we are using as a constitutiontoday was given to us to quarrel. America has used their constitutionfor years and why not take theirs as a packaged deal. Theirconstitution gave everybody room to develop his/her talents and not whatis in Nigeria. Nigeria has 36 states but we are finding it difficultto manage them whereas America has 50 states manages them successfully. Now,ethnicity is being suppressed so that the Southeasterners would notgrow to their full potentials. We create our industries because we havebrains and that has been God given-gift to the Igbo man. I don’t meanthe Igbo are perfect but they are very hard working people and theirprinciple is nearest to the American system. Europe and the civilizedworld created what is happening in Nigeria today and that is how theywant us to be. European powers and America are happy with whatis happening in Nigeria because if Igbo is set free they will developfaster than they. We will not only challenge them but will checkthem because they are only looking for markets, having beenindustrialized. Africa is the market for the industrialized countriesand that is why they keep retarding. Remember, Asia was the former market for European countries but theyturned to Africa after the rise of Asia continent. Europe is not happyabout the rise of Asia because they lost the market. So, the onlymarket remaining in the world today is Africa where Nigeria is thebiggest market. If you are looking for peace in Africa, you arewasting your time. The thousands of generator companies in Americawill lose their existence and employment if Nigeria begins to havesteady electricity. Again, Gaddafi was shot by CIA because hetransformed Libya into a strong country. Libyan university graduateswere taken care of and many things were made free in the country butthe western countries saw the development, planned and killed him. So,if you think any white man is thinking well of Africa, you are wastingyour time.
What do you see as flaws in the arrest and prosecution of IPOB leader,
Nnamdi Kanu?
First of all, they are trying to make him more popular. You can killhim but it would not matter. Everybody will praise him, saying if he werealive, some things could have happened. Fighting ideology requiresintelligence and not gun because it is implanted in the people.That is why the Nigerian leadership is tactless. Why should theymake Nnamdi Kanu popular by arresting him? If the government hadignored them and concentrated on serving the people well, these boyswould have changed their mindset. They chose to fight him, thereby makinghim important. Again, if Nigerians could agree to close theirbusinesses and stay back at home because of his trial, the Federalgovernment needs to be very careful in handling him. Why are theyworried about him? The Federal government’s greatest error is makingNnamdi Kanu popular. You don’t fight ideology with gun and that hasmade Nnamdi Kanu stronger.
The nation is making preparations for 2023 elections amid protests againstthe lopsidedness of FG appointments. With this in mind, how do you see the outcome of the 2023 election?
Well, we have never had any free and fair election in Nigeria. All theelections that have held in the country are rigged. If elections arenot rigged, why should people spend excessively to win elections?Again, since you are clamouring to work for me, why must you pay me tobe chosen?
How do you think the electronic transmission of results can mitigate the scale of election rigging in this country?
Rigging had been in existence and is now part of Nigeria’s system.Okay, when the issue of electronic transmission was put to vote in theHouse, about three Igbo senators walked out. It was only EnyinnayaAbaribe that opposed it. Where did the rest of the Igbo senators go?Instead of contesting the issue with northern senators, they left.These are the set of people that should be brought out and dealt within a clean society because it was a betrayal of people that electedthem. Things changed because of poor leadership and that is theproblem with Nigeria. It is because people now worship money, that is why theykill to win elections. My son was in the House of Assembly two times andI was the one feeding him. I managed to buy an old car for himwhich he drove to work. But now, a member of the house is abillionaire. System of governance has collapsed in Nigeria. Votebuying has taken the order of the day. INEC officials are bribed to declarefalse results and even the judiciary which used to be the last hope ofa common man has been infiltrated with corruption. That tells us thatthe system has collapsed and cannot function again. No government
functions on falsehood.
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Orient Weekend, August 29, 2021